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the Future of City Planner 2019 reply
#1
I have come across this thread The future of City planner 2019 stating that the future of FoE city planner is at question because he is using a hosting service that is charging him $1650 if he pays upfront or $206 per month if he pays on a monthly basis, and I have to ask the administrator @ingwe are you serious? what exactly are you paying $1650 or $206 per month? I would like to see that hosting plan, and the reasons for choosing that exact hosting plan, dude, this is the 2019th, you can get large website hosting packages for as low as $20-30 a year, or lets say you take the biggest package and you pay $100 a year with every possible hosting service you need for it .... You can also get google cloud hosting, which is free, the only thing they charge you is a static IP address which goes for as low as $1 a year Hosting a Website on Google Cloud .... I may not grasp how big this project is, what space it takes or what resources it uses, but i still believe that you are either wasting money on a service you do not need, or your making a really bad choice in selecting your hosting services provider, or you are just trying to score some money from the users, which is fine, you deserve to get some money from your users considering the work you put in this project, but $1650 a year or $206 a month for hosting is ABSURD! ....
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#2
(03-21-2019, 10:01 AM)KronikPillow Wrote: I have come across this thread The future of City planner 2019 stating that the future of FoE city planner is at question because he is using a hosting service that is charging him $1650 if he pays upfront or $206 per month if he pays on a monthly basis, and I have to ask the administrator @ingwe are you serious? what exactly are you paying $1650 or $206 per month? I would like to see that hosting plan, and the reasons for choosing that exact hosting plan, dude, this is the 2019th, you can get large website hosting packages for as low as $20-30 a year, or lets say you take the biggest package and you pay $100 a year with every possible hosting service you need for it .... You can also get google cloud hosting, which is free, the only thing they charge you is a static IP address which goes for as low as $1 a year Hosting a Website on Google Cloud .... I may not grasp how big this project is, what space it takes or what resources it uses, but i still believe that you are either wasting money on a service you do not need, or your making a really bad choice in selecting your hosting services provider, or you are just trying to score some money from the users, which is fine, you deserve to get some money from your users considering the work you put in this project, but $1650 a year or $206 a month for hosting is ABSURD! ....

Thanks for suggestions. However, as you have stated yourself - "I may not grasp how big this project is, what space it takes or what resources it uses". I already had similar discussion a year ago. https://forum.en.forgeofempires.com/inde...ost-246945
This is not a static website hosting.
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#3
I still highly doubt that you can't find a cheaper hosting .... 

on the other hand there are several problems, that haven't been addressed by your self as a owner of this project, who is asking for money from people for it ...

1. Flash support is now cut even from Google Chrome browser, all major browsers will cut total flash support by start of 2020, which means that all people who payed for your service payed for nothing, as it's a in-functional service
2. Your project is full of bugs, which you either are not aware of or just don't care to fix as some of them are present for more then 2 years
3. You mention that you are making a app of city planner v2, I must say, I don't feel comfortable using a closed source app, I don't feel comfortable with ads, popups, and similar stuff that might come trough it, and I sincerely doubt that the desktop version includes a Linux app, my advice, stick to the web version, just step away from flash

examples of bugs:
1: Population count from houses is not correct, it doesn't add up to the population at all
2: there are several buildings with miss placed graphics (like Tower of Babel) they look like they are floating in the air
3: Inclusion of new buildings in the project can sometimes take months, and people who would be donating to your project, would want to be able to plan their new event buildings as soon as the event is released
4: Happiness count is also not correct (this one is older then 2 years)

I am sure i can think of more, but i don't see a point in bothering about it as I can't even login to foe-cityplanner since a few day ago, as Chrome doesn't support flash anymore

I understand that this is on your free time, etc etc etc, but how about, including more people in leading the project? That way, you maybe could attract more money towards your pocket, as you would have a 24/7 full functioning service with fast updates ....
people would need to be insane, to donate money, to something that just does not work correctly

and yes, this is criticism towards asking serious amounts of money to fund a super expensive web service, that basically does not work the way it's supposed to
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#4
There is one thing, which always puzzles me. There are people, which got some tool for free, using it for free, but still complaining... Somebody gave you a car for free. He still repair the car, makes it better from time to time. You are free to use it anytime. But at some point, he asks you that if you can, add fuel for your own money. If you cannot, then it's still alright. And you are complaining that the fuel is too expensive....

You mentioned that I am asking for money. Sometimes, your text sounds like somebody has no other choice but just pay for it (maybe that's just me, sorry, I am not a native English speaker). City planner was free, is free and will be free to use. I think that you misunderstand what donation is. Donation is a way to tell "thank you" in form of money. If you do not want to donate, you can continue using city planner for free as long as it stays live. Just be happy with this.

About bugs. Yes, I am aware of some of them which people reported. Do I know all of them - I guess no, if nobody reported. You wrote that the City planner is full of bugs. Normally, it means that some software is so buggy, that it's impossible to use it. If this is the case, I wonder how thousands of users are still using it. And you are wrong, I do care about fixing them. But guess what - I do not have a lot of time. Some bugs are new, some bugs are there for years, some bugs have been fixed. How many bugs did you personally reported? You do not have to, really. But it's strange to read your complaints.

Having a team for development. I do not have plans for that for number of reasons. And one of the main reason (though not the only important one) is that I am not going to spend time finding those people, interviewing them to understand if they can be a good addition to the team, and then managing all of them.

About flash. Your information is not correct. Instead of writing that the City planner is not usable anymore, you could do just a 10 sec internet search and got a valid info. https://www.chromium.org/flash-roadmap Flash will be completely removed at the end of 2020. You can continue using it in Chrome. Though it's indeed less convenient right now, because you have to explicitly grant access. For simplicity, you can click on the lock icon in the address bar and enable flash.

About city entities updates. This is another place where you are right, when you said "sometimes it takes months". Indeed, during 3 year of being live, I think update circle took 2 months 2-3 times, and 3-4 months right now. That's indeed sometimes. Normally, it's around 1 month.

About v.2. First of all, if you do not feel comfortable to use it, then you are free not to use it. Nobody forces you to do this. You might also be surprised, but you have been already using closed-source City planner. Thus, i do not understand that point of your comment at all. Ads, popups etc are also present on many websites. Thus, I am also not sure where is the logic in that comment, and how will open-source save from that.

You are right is that I do not have plans to include Linux support. So far, Linux users are 2.66% from all users during last year. I do not have resources to make dedicate support for such a low audience.

To conclude. I would kindly ask you to speak for yourself only, and not for other people. You did it few times, when you were assuming that others would be insane donating etc. Also, please, before writing, double check the information, so you will not broadcast a wrong one (like about flash, for example). You mentioned that you understand that I am making it in my free time. However, I think you actually do not understand this. I just wonder, how much time do you think the development of such tool takes? You write a lot, but I do not see any actions. The criticism is always welcome. But before writing just a critical messages, ask yourself - "What did I personally do to make this better?". If you are not happy with the tool, if you see that I cannot make it better, or do not want to make it better, you are absolutely free to find a team of people who are interested, manage them, and create a better City planner. Just like you suggested.
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#5
(05-18-2019, 08:42 AM)ingwe Wrote: Il y a une chose qui me laisse toujours perplexe. Il y a des gens qui ont un outil gratuit, l'utilisent gratuitement, mais qui se plaignent ... Quelqu'un vous a donné une voiture gratuitement. Il répare encore la voiture, améliore de temps en temps. Vous êtes libre de l'utiliser à tout moment. Mais à un moment donné, il vous demande si, si vous le pouvez, faites le plein pour votre argent. Si vous ne pouvez pas, alors tout va bien. Et vous vous plaignez que le carburant est trop cher ....

Vous avez mentionné que je demande de l'argent. Parfois, votre texte sonne comme si quelqu'un n'avait pas d'autre choix que de le payer (peut-être que c'est juste moi, désolé, je ne parle pas anglais). Le planificateur de la ville était gratuit, gratuit et utilisable gratuitement. Je pense que vous comprenez mal ce qu'est un don. Le don est un moyen de dire "merci" sous forme d'argent. Si vous ne souhaitez pas faire de don, vous pouvez continuer à utiliser gratuitement City Planner tant qu'il reste en ligne. Sois juste heureux avec ça.

À propos des bugs. Oui, je suis au courant de certaines d’entre elles qui ont été rapportées. Est-ce que je les connais tous - je suppose que non, si personne n'a rapporté. Vous avez écrit que le planificateur de la ville est plein de bugs. Normalement, cela signifie que certains logiciels sont tellement buggés qu'il est impossible de les utiliser. Si tel est le cas, je me demande comment des milliers d'utilisateurs l'utilisent encore. Et vous avez tort, je tiens à les réparer. Mais devinez quoi - je n’ai pas beaucoup de temps. Certains bugs sont nouveaux, certains existent depuis des années, certains ont été corrigés. Combien de bugs avez-vous personnellement signalés? Vous n'êtes pas obligé, vraiment. Mais c'est étrange de lire vos plaintes.

Avoir une équipe pour le développement. Je n'ai pas de projets pour cela pour plusieurs raisons. Et l'une des principales raisons (bien que n'étant pas la seule importante) est que je ne vais pas perdre du temps à rechercher ces personnes, à les interroger pour savoir si elles peuvent constituer un bon ajout à l'équipe, puis à toutes les gérer.

À propos du flash. Votre information n'est pas correcte. Au lieu d’écrire que le planificateur urbain n’est plus utilisable, vous pouvez effectuer une recherche Internet de 10 secondes et obtenir une information valide. https://www.chromium.org/flash-roadmap Flash sera complètement supprimé à la fin de 2020. Vous pouvez continuer à l'utiliser dans Chrome. Bien que ce soit effectivement moins pratique pour le moment, vous devez explicitement autoriser l'accès. Pour plus de simplicité, vous pouvez cliquer sur l'icône de cadenas dans la barre d'adresse et activer le flash.

À propos des mises à jour des entités de la ville. C’est un autre endroit où vous avez raison, lorsque vous dites "cela prend parfois des mois". En effet, pendant 3 ans, je pense que le cercle de mise à jour a pris 2 mois, 2 à 3 fois et 3 ou 4 mois actuellement. C'est en effet parfois. Normalement, c'est environ 1 mois.

À propos de v.2. Tout d'abord, si vous ne vous sentez pas à l'aise pour l'utiliser, vous êtes libre de ne pas l'utiliser. Personne ne vous oblige à le faire. Vous pourriez également être surpris, mais vous utilisiez déjà le planificateur urbain à source fermée. Ainsi, je ne comprends pas du tout ce point de votre commentaire. Des annonces, des popups, etc. sont également présents sur de nombreux sites Web. Par conséquent, je ne sais pas non plus où se trouve la logique dans ce commentaire et comment l’enregistrement open-source en sauvera-t-il.

Vous avez raison, je n’envisage pas d’inclure le support Linux. Jusqu'à présent, les utilisateurs de Linux représentent 2,66% de tous les utilisateurs l'année dernière. Je n'ai pas les ressources nécessaires pour faire un soutien dédié à un public aussi faible.

De conclure. Je vous demanderais de bien vouloir parler pour vous-même et non pour les autres. Vous l'avez fait peu de fois, alors que vous supposiez que d'autres seraient fous en faisant un don, etc. Avant de rédiger, vérifiez bien les informations pour ne pas en diffuser une mauvaise (comme à propos de Flash, par exemple). Vous avez mentionné que vous comprenez que je le fais pendant mon temps libre. Cependant, je pense que vous ne comprenez pas réellement cela. Je me demande simplement combien de temps pensez-vous que le développement d'un tel outil prend? Vous écrivez beaucoup, mais je ne vois aucune action. La critique est toujours la bienvenue. Mais avant d’écrire simplement un message critique, posez-vous la question suivante: "Qu’ai-je personnellement fait pour l’améliorer?". Si vous n'êtes pas satisfait de l'outil, si vous voyez que je ne peux pas l'améliorer, ou que je ne veux pas l'améliorer, vous êtes absolument libre de trouver une équipe de personnes intéressées, de les gérer et de créer un meilleur urbaniste. Tout comme vous l'avez suggéré.

Ainsi va la vie. C'est toujours ceux qui ne font rien qui critique. J'ai, tout au long de ma vie, connu ça !
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#6
I came to this site for the first time today because I was interested in using the planner. I appreciated the fact that it was free so I could see if it was useful to me without (or at least before) having to pay for it. Unfortunately, I couldn't even download my city to begin with, so I do not know if it is useful (certainly not for me at present) and how much that usefulness might be worth to me. I am the sort of person who would donate if I used a free service and got something useful out of it. Sadly, I didn't...

I'm not a computer programmer but I can imagine that this was a large project to begin with, and it seems it may be never ending in terms of people's expectations and responding to problems. Personally, I think that people who complain should consider their motivations in doing so.. and should also consider what has been provided for no cost. Is the complaint really to offer assistance in how to get cheaper hosting (for example), or to suggest that this cost is minimal and so its not worth contributing for? What of the developer's time.. in the start up and ongoing maintenance? Please, let's try be fair to each other..
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#7
(08-03-2019, 12:01 PM)misceltree Wrote: I came to this site for the first time today because I was interested in using the planner. I appreciated the fact that it was free so I could see if it was useful to me without (or at least before) having to pay for it. Unfortunately, I couldn't even download my city to begin with, so I do not know if it is useful (certainly not for me at present) and how much that usefulness might be worth to me. I am the sort of person who would donate if I used a free service and got something useful out of it. Sadly, I didn't...

I'm not a computer programmer but I can imagine that this was a large project to begin with, and it seems it may be never ending in terms of people's expectations and responding to problems. Personally, I think that people who complain should consider their motivations in doing so.. and should also consider what has been provided for no cost. Is the complaint really to offer assistance in how to get cheaper hosting (for example), or to suggest that this cost is minimal and so its not worth contributing for? What of the developer's time.. in the start up and ongoing maintenance? Please, let's try be fair to each other..

The City planner was not only free in the past, but is free right now, and I have no plans to make it as a paid service. Donation is completely optional but of course is very welcome.
As to the issue with importing the city. Please, check other threads and if you cannot get the answer there, just provide more details there so I can check.
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#8
To the matter of donations:
Is there a reason why you won't add any kind of ad like banners or something to the website?

In my humble opinion, way more people would be willing to deactivate their adblocker to support you instead of donating actual money!
I can live with one or two ads beeing added to the website, as it is to support you and the project, to keep it live and worth your while
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#9
(10-26-2019, 08:28 AM)Spawny Wrote: To the matter of donations:
Is there a reason why you won't add any kind of ad like banners or something to the website?

In my humble opinion, way more people would be willing to deactivate their adblocker to support you instead of donating actual money!
I can live with one or two ads beeing added to the website, as it is to support you and the project, to keep it live and worth your while

I do not really like ads on websites, so I will try to avoid them if I can.
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#10
(05-18-2019, 08:42 AM)ingwe Wrote: There is one thing, which always puzzles me. There are people, which got some tool for free, using it for free, but still complaining... Somebody gave you a car for free. He still repair the car, makes it better from time to time. You are free to use it anytime. But at some point, he asks you that if you can, add fuel for your own money. If you cannot, then it's still alright. And you are complaining that the fuel is too expensive....

You mentioned that I am asking for money. Sometimes, your text sounds like somebody has no other choice but just pay for it (maybe that's just me, sorry, I am not a native English speaker). City planner was free, is free and will be free to use. I think that you misunderstand what donation is. Donation is a way to tell "thank you" in form of money. If you do not want to donate, you can continue using city planner for free as long as it stays live. Just be happy with this.

About bugs. Yes, I am aware of some of them which people reported. Do I know all of them - I guess no, if nobody reported. You wrote that the City planner is full of bugs. Normally, it means that some software is so buggy, that it's impossible to use it. If this is the case, I wonder how thousands of users are still using it. And you are wrong, I do care about fixing them. But guess what - I do not have a lot of time. Some bugs are new, some bugs are there for years, some bugs have been fixed. How many bugs did you personally reported? You do not have to, really. But it's strange to read your complaints.

Having a team for development. I do not have plans for that for number of reasons. And one of the main reason (though not the only important one) is that I am not going to spend time finding those people, interviewing them to understand if they can be a good addition to the team, and then managing all of them.

About flash. Your information is not correct. Instead of writing that the City planner is not usable anymore, you could do just a 10 sec internet search and got a valid info. https://www.chromium.org/flash-roadmap Flash will be completely removed at the end of 2020. You can continue using it in Chrome. Though it's indeed less convenient right now, because you have to explicitly grant access. For simplicity, you can click on the lock icon in the address bar and enable flash.

About city entities updates. This is another place where you are right, when you said "sometimes it takes months". Indeed, during 3 year of being live, I think update circle took  2 months 2-3 times, and 3-4 months right now. That's indeed sometimes. Normally, it's around 1 month.

About v.2. First of all, if you do not feel comfortable to use it, then you are free not to use it. Nobody forces you to do this. You might also be surprised, but you have been already using closed-source City planner. Thus, i do not understand that point of your comment at all. Ads, popups etc are also present on many websites. Thus, I am also not sure where is the logic in that comment, and how will open-source save from that.

You are right is that I do not have plans to include Linux support. So far, Linux users are 2.66% from all users during last year. I do not have resources to make dedicate support for such a low audience.

To conclude. I would kindly ask you to speak for yourself only, and not for other people. You did it few times, when you were assuming that others would be insane donating etc. Also, please, before writing, double check the information, so you will not broadcast a wrong one (like about flash, for example). You mentioned that you understand that I am making it in my free time. However, I think you actually do not understand this. I just wonder, how much time do you think the development of such tool takes? You write a lot, but I do not see any actions. The criticism is always welcome. But before writing just a critical messages, ask yourself - "What did I personally do to make this better?". If you are not happy with the tool, if you see that I cannot make it better, or do not want to make it better, you are absolutely free to find a team of people who are interested, manage them, and create a better City planner. Just like you suggested.

Dear Ingwe:

FYI, I contacted FoE about your (and my) "can't load" issue .... They denied that a problem exists. ...  I sent a followup.

Funding - I would be happy to make a contribution ... if it were easier than the 2 methods you offer ...   Kickstarter?

Thanks for what you created in FoE CityPlanner.   Hope things come together enough to allow you to continue.

Kudos

PS - I had to re register my email & pw in order to post in Forum - my email addy was rejected as not valid ... Is valid for Cityplanner itself. ....    odd
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